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- We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray · 20 ✖
id | html_url | issue_url | node_id | user | created_at | updated_at ▲ | author_association | body | reactions | performed_via_github_app | issue |
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671842738 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-671842738 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY3MTg0MjczOA== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-11T09:39:05Z | 2020-08-11T09:39:05Z | MEMBER | pandas is really unstable and its API breaks every other version. Extending its support window from 1 to 2 years would be extremely expensive and frustrating to maintain. |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
671816252 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-671816252 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY3MTgxNjI1Mg== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-11T08:45:02Z | 2020-08-11T08:45:02Z | MEMBER | Discussion seems to have died down here. Can we get to a consensus and wrap this up? My vote is to simply require setuptools >= 38.4 at runtime (for which PR https://github.com/pydata/xarray/pull/4296 is ready to go). |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
668872362 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-668872362 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2ODg3MjM2Mg== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-04T23:13:20Z | 2020-08-04T23:13:20Z | MEMBER |
I don't think we should be discussing a solution that works on wheels but breaks on sources... |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
668866899 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-668866899 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2ODg2Njg5OQ== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-04T22:59:29Z | 2020-08-04T22:59:29Z | MEMBER | Ubuntu 18.04 ships Python 3.6.5 and setuptools 39.0. Ubuntu 16.04 ships Python 3.5 so it's not to be taken into consideration anyway. |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
668865267 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-668865267 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2ODg2NTI2Nw== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-04T22:55:12Z | 2020-08-04T22:55:12Z | MEMBER |
I have tested that setuptools < 36.7 breaks setuptools-scm; the installed version becomes 0.0.0 which in turns breaks any other package that contains a minimum version check (namely, pandas). Also, I think we agreed when we implemented NEP29 that we should not support Python 3.6.0, but only the latest patch version for any given minor version of a package. Python 3.6.11 (released 1 month ago) is shipped with setuptools 40.6. Any pip or conda-based environment can trivially upgrade from Python 3.6.0 to 3.6.11. The only users that have problems with getting setuptools >=38.4 (2.5 years old!!!) are those that use /usr/bin/python3 from a very old Linux distribution, which for some reason never got the patch updates of Python, AND expect everything to be compatible with the very latest python packages freshly downloaded from the internet. I mean, seriously? |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
668858302 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-668858302 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2ODg1ODMwMg== | max-sixty 5635139 | 2020-08-04T22:35:32Z | 2020-08-04T22:35:32Z | MEMBER | FWIW according to https://numpy.org/neps/nep-0029-deprecation_policy.html, we can drop 3.6 support as-of June 2020. |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
668793103 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-668793103 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2ODc5MzEwMw== | shoyer 1217238 | 2020-08-04T19:52:30Z | 2020-08-04T19:52:30Z | MEMBER |
This is used for pulling out static files (CSS/HTML) for xarray's HTML repr. We could inline these resources as Python strings, but I think using separate files is cleaner and to my knowledge there is no better alternative than On Python 3.7 we could use |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
668401159 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-668401159 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2ODQwMTE1OQ== | shoyer 1217238 | 2020-08-04T06:13:36Z | 2020-08-04T06:13:36Z | MEMBER |
It looks like pip has supported Consistent with my earlier suggestion about setuptools, I think we should support the oldest packaging tools that were released at the time of our earliest supported Python release. So if we switch to requiring Python 3.7 in our next major release, we could switch to using |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
668383854 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-668383854 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2ODM4Mzg1NA== | shoyer 1217238 | 2020-08-04T05:14:32Z | 2020-08-04T05:14:32Z | MEMBER | My preference would be to say that we support setuptools 30.3 and newer, even if we can't test it:
I don't think it's worth the hassle of switching to importlib backports, at least for now. Likewise, I would lean against switching to |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667664327 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667664327 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzY2NDMyNw== | keewis 14808389 | 2020-08-02T11:51:01Z | 2020-08-02T14:27:09Z | MEMBER | I was going to suggest using preprocessing selectors, but as you say these are incompatible with The |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667659338 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667659338 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzY1OTMzOA== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-02T11:01:12Z | 2020-08-02T11:01:12Z | MEMBER |
-1 from me, because dependencies that are only required on a specific Python version are incompatible with noarch conda recipes. This would force us to change conda to build one package for each OS x python version. |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667657310 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667657310 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzY1NzMxMA== | keewis 14808389 | 2020-08-02T10:38:36Z | 2020-08-02T10:38:36Z | MEMBER | the reason we install-depend on
An additional advantage is that our if name == "main":
setup()
|
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667589873 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667589873 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzU4OTg3Mw== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-01T21:34:05Z | 2020-08-01T21:34:05Z | MEMBER | PR ready for review |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667578007 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667578007 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzU3ODAwNw== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-01T19:40:16Z | 2020-08-01T19:40:16Z | MEMBER | The key problem in "as-old-as-they-can-be" is that you end up with dependencies that depend on each other and are 1 year apart in release date. Since very frequently other projects are a lot less rigorous with testing vs old dependencies (if they test at all!) that has caused an endless amount of breakages in the past. Testing with all packages as of 1 year ago is a lot less bug-prone and time-wasting. |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667576666 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667576666 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzU3NjY2Ng== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-01T19:27:21Z | 2020-08-01T19:27:21Z | MEMBER | setuptools-scm doesn't work with setuptools < 36.7 (Nov 2017). The conda metadata is malformed for setuptools < 38.4 (Jan 2018) - it's missing a timestamp which prevents the minimum versions tool from working. Is everybody happy with >= 38.4? |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667575675 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667575675 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzU3NTY3NQ== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-01T19:19:11Z | 2020-08-01T19:19:11Z | MEMBER |
We used to do that and we abandoned that policy in favour of the current rolling window, because it made developers (particularly the less experienced ones) waste a considerable amount of effort retaining backwards compatibility with obsolete versions of the dependencies that nobody cared about. |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667571656 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667571656 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzU3MTY1Ng== | shoyer 1217238 | 2020-08-01T18:40:35Z | 2020-08-01T18:40:35Z | MEMBER |
Thanks! This is greatly appreciated :) |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667571613 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667571613 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzU3MTYxMw== | shoyer 1217238 | 2020-08-01T18:40:16Z | 2020-08-01T18:40:16Z | MEMBER | I think setuptools should be treated more like Python/NumPy because it's hard installation requirement (and can be challenging to install).
My sense is that setuptools is somewhat unique as a dependency because it's only used as part of installation I am supportive of bumping minimum version requirements according to our policy when it serves a purpose, but I don't think we should do it "just because we can".
24 months sounds about right to me. Or given that setuptools is typically bundled with Python, maybe "Whatever version of setuptools corresponds to our oldest supported Python release"? (This is assuming that it's still possible to get that version of setuptools in CI environments. If not, we may need to reconsider...) |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667569885 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667569885 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzU2OTg4NQ== | crusaderky 6213168 | 2020-08-01T18:24:22Z | 2020-08-01T18:24:22Z | MEMBER |
It is documented: https://xarray.pydata.org/en/stable/installing.html#minimum-dependency-versions
The requirement is explicitly set in setup.cfg because don't ship what you don't test. I see no problem in explicitly adding a special case to the policy for setuptools - I guess 24 months should be fine for all? I do not recommend just going back to "whatever the very first version that works" as we were doing before the introduction of the rolling policy. I'm preparing a PR... |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 | |
667559947 | https://github.com/pydata/xarray/issues/4295#issuecomment-667559947 | https://api.github.com/repos/pydata/xarray/issues/4295 | MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDY2NzU1OTk0Nw== | shoyer 1217238 | 2020-08-01T17:01:48Z | 2020-08-01T17:01:48Z | MEMBER | It looks like the actual hard requirement for This is shortly before the release date of Python 3.6.0, so I suspect this would be a fine requirement to impose for our users. |
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We shouldn't require a recent version of setuptools to install xarray 671019427 |
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